He remains silent this time, there's no need for interruption. Some of it is just verification, and when things line up, it makes the rest that hadn't been verified ... extremely likely. There are details this time that had been left out, in an effort to spare him further torment over the inevitable that lay ahead. But the force of the magic Thirteen applied meant there was no recourse this time but the truth, no matter how much it revealed.
The fire is watched instead of Vincent.
Cloud's at the time unreasonable aggression is better understood, now. What he'd been made to do. What he meant by knowing Sephiroth's capabilities better than he himself did, beyond merely sharing Jenova in their blood. And it wasn't just about Cloud, but about Aerith, whom had been mentioned but there was no face to put to the name, the true last Cetra. Killed, like so many others.
The true depths of what Zack was willing to just ... let go, was profound. They should have all taken up weapons as soon as the Fox brought him here.
Found a way to make it stick.
That Vincent hasn't spoken of being dead, and nobody said anything about Cloud being dead either, they had to have finally won, but Vincent chooses a terrible moment to pause at. Or the exact right moment for a cliffhanger. "..Would it be easier to write?"
The only thing said, this entire time, and with no inflection at all.
Another measure is poured out. It is purposefully small, like the earlier bit had been. This is left ready. Though he tilts his head for a moment, Vincent shakes his head.
"No, there's no compulsion to tell you the truth when I think about writing it."
Which is the truth in itself, but the sign that he paused to consider it means he might have intended to be honest anyway.
"Don't worry. I deserve at more than this level of discomfort." At least Sephiroth's question about writing had given him a little more time to collect himself. And the last part that concerns Sephiroth in specific is... shorter by comparison.
"Cloud stopped what the you of my past had become. Jenova... and that Sephiroth. It was blocking the planet's response to Meteor. Soon after, Holy came and... was bolstered by the Lifestream. Meteor was averted."
He might add in a few details here. Things he heard, that the others who had gone into the Crater had told him. Eventually, Vincent had drifted away but not for the usual reasons. Geostigma had begun to manifest in the wake of the Lifestream's emergence and Jenova's legacy within it.
The search for a cure, investigations into the root case. The Remnants, Rufus and the remaining Turks' descent into the North Crater to retrieve what remained of Jenova itself... Fools who could not leave enough alone.
Though leaving it there would have allowed Kadaj to find it sooner. Time was brought with their actions for better or worse. But the end came with the return of that Sephiroth, manifest in the strongest of the Remnants. Again the obsession with Cloud, again a clash... and defeat. No Meteor though. No Holy.
And though it bears the burden of being a final push after a long, long dialogue and hard for those reasons, the retelling of the events over those two years was comparably short. In part it was easier to assemble in hindsight and with firsthand knowledge throughout. But in a way it was also... less. No less deadly perhaps, or lacking in threat. Nothing of Lucrecia, here. There's nothing to mention. He'd not brought it up earlier either, when recounting the actions of that future version of the teen.
"That was the last. It's been a year since then. Geostigma was cured. That Sephiroth has disappeared or gone dormant again." He takes up the glass and allows himself the drink. The way he looks at it suggests Vincent feels it's not nearly enough but he forces himself to put it down and return the cork to the bottle.
Sometime through the explanation he finally sits down, but not on the chair. The floor will do.
'Monster' is an inaccurate description of Sephiroth. What was higher on that scale? He truly was Jenova's son, of all three 'parents' - a calamity, spawned by a calamity. Things the son of scientists alone could never accomplish had been wreaked not once, but twice, world ending threats that if they'd gone unchecked would have erased all life on Gaia.
Even Hojo wouldn't try to destroy the world. He'd have nothing to experiment on afterward.
Again Vincent isn't interrupted, there's no questions to be had that he thinks there'll be an answer for. He just draws his knees up to his chest and rests his head on them, arms crossed, trying and failing to grasp the enormity of harm he inflicts. None of it is a real shock this time, not the same way finding out what he was thoroughly destroyed any sense of where he belonged in the world. But it keeps him silent and more or less still even when the Turk finishes speaking.
It's never weighed as something that might happen, and something he could avoid.
How can he change something that's in other people's pasts? The silence ticks on, punctuated by the pop of the fire.
It's a blessing Sephiroth did not ask him anything that would trigger the compulsion to speak about Chaos and Omega. Someone might think it would prove humans are just as terrible. But all it would sound like is that Sephiroth's sire would be more than capable of razing the world for his own ends. Small wonder he followed in those footsteps.
Vincent needs a few of those precious, silent seconds to recover. Physically and emotionally he's spent. But his gaze doesn't leave Sephiroth; especially since the teen has finally stopped standing and simply sat on the ground.
He slowly closes the distance, his footsteps for once pointedly there. He'll get within an arm's length away and drop to crouch on one knee. With his right hand, he aims to bring it to rest on Sephiroth's shoulder.
"Sephiroth." There is a thin strain in the man's voice; the kind that suggests he will be feeling it in the morning. But Vincent doesn't care. "If you get that chance to remember everything you learned here, don't let my past shape your future."
His head dips briefly. Vincent still can't say anything that isn't true to his knowledge and it brings a sigh from him. He looks up again with as an intense, earnest expression as he can muster. He wants the boy to know that it's him speaking; not just what the ice cream is forcing him to admit.
"I don't know if Thirteen told you the truth. But if she did... then do what you want to do. We all failed you. Me, Hojo... Lucrecia."
Has Sephiroth tried to withdraw from the touch? Let it happen at all? If the hand was allowed to rest it will gently, albeit awkwardly, seek to squeeze a little.
"Being a monster... doesn't mean you have no humanity. Or that you can't choose to live as a human. It took me... a long time to learn that lesson. I hope you come to understand that sooner."
While he's not directly watched it's certain Sephiroth is paying at least some attention to what Vincent is doing, especially when the Turk approaches, and then kneels. He's not used to contact, even though his team was more liberal with it than anyone ever had been in his life, and it's hard to repress the twitch at a hand on his shoulder, but Vincent's not immediately thrown off. There's too much else to consider besides that.
The WEAPONs are .. .. they're interesting but in a dull, distant sort of way that doesn't really have his focus right now. Maybe one day he'll think to ask about it, ask about all of them, but if he never becomes a threat to the world they should remain slumbering, distant menaces. Things that do not need to be stirred.
Things that never should have been roused to begin with.
On some level he's aware this is not the sort of thing a fourteen year old should have to deal with. That normal kids are busy with schoolwork or friends or having fun, not having their lives unravel thread by thread until there's nothing left but pain and uncertainty. He couldn't handle it any better than he would in another fifteen or so years, the only difference is the lack of his other 'mother's' influence to tip it all to violent destruction. It's going to take a long time to sort through it, come to terms with any of it, and make any real conclusions about what to do. Was it reassuring to know at least one of his mothers (if not both) actually had wanted him, experiment or no, and being left with Hojo was not part of the plan?
That too would need to be worked out in time, and try to figure out if what she meant outweighed what she did.
Maybe it would. He didn't have anything else.
"I might not have a choice." Time could be a closed circle, and all Thirteen's intentions could be meaningless. What has happened may always happen. He couldn't really grasp it, the numbers and scale involved. It left him a little numb, which might be better than abject horror.
Vincent is warmer than expected. Somehow he'd expected the chill, clammy touch of the dead. It didn't balance, being a monster and a human, he couldn't do both, and the choice was taken out of his hands already. How could he live like that? Try to be normal? He never was. There weren't a lot of places suitable for a monster in a human's skin, except maybe Folkmore. .. And Shinra. Vincent's fate was surely unsanctioned. The loss of a Turk to experimentation wouldn't be allowed. The things done to him would likely be seen as excessive, likely they had no idea. Whatever the process, it had worked, and that was what mattered to them.
But they offered structure that til now had been perfectly acceptable. And outlets for what he wondered now was that monstrous instinct to kill. Could possibly stop him if things got out of hand, he wasn't the only active-type SOLDIER preparing to be tested on the battlefield.
Do what you want to do. "You were born a human. You lived as one most of your life." There might have been shouting earlier but he's .. been quiet since. "I.. don't even know what it really means."
The touch of the dead or the ephemeral, barely there brush of a ghost. He gives off that impression. Vincent has probably surprised a few people since his transformation.
"Who knows?" If Sephiroth has a choice. "Going to give up before you even try?" That is one-hundred percent Vincent Valentine, no ice cream needed. Really, it's getting harder and harder to see the teenager as Sephiroth. At least, not the Sephiroth he glimpsed in the battles for Gaia's future.
That had seemed a gross caricature of what's before him now. If only he had waited longer and gotten to know the teen before... sigh.
Vincent isn't the best at comfort, as it was said before. The awkward way his hand rested in comfort, the brief squeeze. His hand drops away but... he isn't going away. Instead there's a shift of his stance and he just drops to sit alongside Sephiroth, legs loosely stretched, arms draped over bent knees and just inches away from shoulders touching.
He hears what might have been shouting once, if nothing more as a faint asperity in the complaint.
"I've been a monster as long as I was human," he points out. His physical appearance might make that hard to reconcile. "I barely remember what 'human' feels like." Honestly, it's more of a sense that he knows he once was. Sleeping had done little to preserve that feeling; every transformation, with control or without it, had stripped steadily it away.
"Is it better having always been one? Or knowing you were once 'human', but became a monster?"
Neither is better. The question's answer is a zero-sum game of comparisons. As Sephiroth says he doesn't know what 'human' means. Vincent lets out a huff of dry, mirthless humor.
"I don't think anyone really knows what it means to be 'human'." His head tilts so that he's looking at the teen settled next to him. "I've been thinking lately that it's better to focus on what it means to live."
Somehow touch made it harder to maintain any measure of control over his emotions, more than being a Legend or just a hormonal teenager did. But this time maybe the dim firelight will make it easier to hide its proof. "If I thought it would stick, yes. Then no one would have to bear the burden of getting rid of a 'kid'." It's a frank admission; the gun still stuffed in his jacket would be put to use, and there would be no struggle. He was expendable to begin with, and the price of his life is far lesser than the thousands he'd be responsible for. Sheer pragmatism alone meant it wouldn't be worth the risk, and he wasn't so attached to life that he'd fight for it. But it was pointless to try. Not just here.
Not just here - he'd returned twice before after being killed, on Gaia. Lucrecia had tried, and been unable to die. Jenova, trapped for thousands of years in stone, had not died either.
Saying it's all the same is a luxury only those who've experienced being human can have, and it reminds Sephiroth that he is not speaking to a close friend ... not that he really had any of those to begin with .. and thus should be more mindful of what he admits to. "If you don't know what it means."
Then the exercise of pretending to be human was pointless. "It makes pretending harder."
"Without Jenova's remains, it might be different. Whether you can die. What you become." If you could call them remains. Not here in Folkmore, but... home. But even without the added presence of the alien, who's to say Sephiroth would ever find peace even in the Lifestream? Linger, drifting. Never being allowed to truly join with the planet.
"Don't misunderstand. I don't particularly believe in 'what ifs'. But I never thought I'd be kidnapped by some strange creature and brought... here."
Sure, without the specific factors that led to Sephiroth's descent to madness, he'd at least maintain his self. 'Different' doesn't mean good. It can possibly mean a lot of lives saved. Vincent is well versed in cruel reality, else he'd have never gone after a teenager in the first place. Still, within the context of one's own time, what happens when something breaks the cycle? Or maybe he has to consider all the hope his friends subscribe to is rubbing off on him.
His words fade for a time, returning to watching Sephiroth and listening. For a moment, Vincent's brow furrows. It's... true. There is at least a difference between remembering what being human was like; he knows the norms. It's worth a pause for thought.
But the question that comes remains the same as he had originally intended to ask.
"Is that what you've been doing? Pretending?" It's not just an attempt to suggest that Sephiroth naturally shows human traits. Clumsy, young ones from a routine indoctrinated from birth. But 'human' in not wanting to be a monster, not wanting to hurt others or be a horrible calamity.
Vincent's tone indicate it's a question seeking what Sephiroth knew before he came here and learned of the future. If he always felt he was pretending. Was he pretending even now?
There's a downside to being in a lab all his life. He understands some of it. "Either I have the same number of cells from her today as I did when they manipulated my embryo, which is unlikely, or they're part of me and replicated along with every other cell in my body." This is strangely detached from the horror of the rest. He could hear it all being said in Hojo's voice. "Based on the fact that I don't really look like either of my human parents, I don't need an external source. I am the source."
The coloring is wrong. Their eyes are not unnatural the way his are. They can't hit people with cars, survive falls from hundreds of feet up, and more. There would be no removing Jenova from his body, there wouldn't be enough human to keep him alive.
"You were kidnapped?" He went willingly. He didn't remember everything about the long walk here, its explanations, its strange sights, but he did remember going deliberately. Being asked; it hadn't felt like a compulsion. He harbored no resentment towards the Fox at all, the world she'd built was a refuge for so many.
It had its costs, as everything did. But they seemed worth it, especially for those who had nothing to return to. And he knew several people now, without anything to return to.
In the end, irrelevant. Willing or not, they're here. He hesitates to answer the question about whether or not he's been acting this whole time, but slowly, there's a nod. He has been, in fact. It's not what Vincent had hoped for, perhaps, but it was still reality. "I've ... had to guess, a lot, about how I'm supposed to act; what I'm supposed to say or do. Until Rhadore, my contact with anyone outside the lab was minimal. I wasn't allowed such ... distractions."
On one hand that's exactly the sort of shit one might expect out of Hojo. Isolation meant an easier controlled product. On the other hand, it made Sephiroth's discomfort with the idea of people getting hurt by him or around him who didn't deserve it as instinctive as the urge to kill was.
"Hmm." Vincent can't refute it by any knowledge he has, though he follows it well enough. There's just no way to tell from here. Though he has some suspicions that it wasn't just Sephiroth's genes. And perhaps not just the mental break. There were still many mysteries about Jenova.
It's a matter to let rest for now.
"Hrmph. I didn't want to keep everyone waiting." He was asked, Vincent's fairly sure. It doesn't mean he was interested; Thirteen thought she knew better and then he was following anyway. Or she needed him for some reason? It was frustrating, even if some of those friends were here. Even if there was someone else he was especially capable of confronting. That was not Sephiroth.
But at the same time, it's turning out he might be helpful here. Atonement? He won't look at it like that. But at least he will take responsibility.
The nod... No, Vincent did not wish to see that. But as Sephiroth continues to explain, what starts as concern for the teen's true nature behind a mask is replaced. Quiet sadness. Regret. Anger, toward Hojo though little less at his own past foolishness.
"Sephiroth... that's not because you're a monster or an experiment." For a brief moment, Vincent's eyes close. "Those are skills you learn from meeting many people and experiencing many things. Being confined to a lab with only... whatever Hojo allowed, it's no wonder you struggle."
Look at Vincent, trying to explain how social skills are developed. It actually brings another scuff of near-humor out of him. The sort of sound that he tends to make when he's reflecting on himself.
"...And people, humans... they can struggle to connect even when they live 'normal' lives."
Though Sephiroth is pretty certain otherwise, as the same result would happen from a monster, save the isolation and rigorous training would produce more predictable results, arguing for why he's what he is, is not going to do him any favors. He still needed to figure out what turns this admittedly life-altering information into something that sets him to trying to destroy the world multiple times.
Later. There's always later, when he had just himself and an otherwise empty house to consider, or the long flight home.
Maybe he'd walk.
"You must understand." He can wrap neutrality around himself like a shield, however tenuous it is. "I can't afford to think it's fine and normal. Not until I ..."
No, this isn't right, it's not going to work. He needed to get control of himself; Hojo might be a hateful creature of a human being, but he was right about one thing, emotions got in the way, and he was embarrassing himself. It's one of his earliest lessons. It doesn't matter what he felt.
When he finally composes himself enough to speak again, he does seem remarkably calm. "In light of ... all of this. I'll do what I can to start putting contingencies in place. If I understand the roles we're handed by Thirteen, so long as I still have feathers I should be .. reasonably safe for others to be around. If that changes, then it would be best to treat me as a clear and immediate threat." Legends could become Myths, wings traded for fangs and claws.
Vincent can practically see the shroud of rational, realistic thought rise up in defense around the teenager. Something to shield him from too many hopeful words. But Vincent can't fault the realistic argument either. Answers, particularly such vital ones, aren't going to be had if Sephiroth just chooses the one he wants to be true and shut the others away.
So the gunman doesn't insist. Instead he offers a nod.
"Alright. I understand."
He really does.
"Keep it in mind. I'm forced to speak the truth right now. You should weigh it against whatever else you discover." It's just another bit of data to analyze. Not... just a hope. Vincent starts getting up from the floor. After a moment he offers his right hand down to the boy.
"I know I'm partly to blame. But...being raised in the lab. What you've gone through. Those aren't normal experiences. Not for humans, not for monsters."
The talk then turns to what might be used in Folkmore to recognize the changes in Sephiroth. Vincent turns his own thoughts to it.
"Hmm. Do you know how long that takes? I don't know if it's instant." And for a threat like that Sephiroth, the quicker the tells appear the better it is to trust them. "I'll have to start investigating roles again," he can be heard to mutter.
If nothing more, he's taking the warnings and contingency quite seriously.
"If you were my sire and not the Turk assigned to guard two of my parents, then yes, it would be partly on you." It's pretty cut and dry as far as he was concerned. "Turks don't exactly go around stealing babies. Or interfering with the science department. It's not your job. And it sounds like up until you were shot, you did what you were supposed to."
Their job is murder and espionage, and apparently, guarding nerds. Hojo and Lucrecia are still alive, so mission accomplished. The hand offered to him is studied for a long moment before it's taken. His grip is ... very careful. "Given .. what I am and what I will do, the lab and SOLDIER may be the best place for me." His chances of causing undue harm with other enhanced fighters around him are smaller than if he had free reign. Zack simply wasn't enough on his own to do anything about it.
Cloud however, was. And Cloud is another SOLDIER, whether by treatment or by training. And with both of them here, with a cetra and a Turk as backup.. Sephiroth's reasonably sure he wouldn't get far before he was brought to an unceremonious stop.
Role switching however is a mystery. "No. I've heard of it but haven't seen it. Much like the claims of resurrection." Which reminded him. There's a pause and a frown. "I really would have let you, you know. I just wanted to do it somewhere easier to clean up and store my belongings, and set up some video recorders in case I forgot anything."
Vincent does turn his head. It's... clear he doesn't feel at all like he deserves that consideration. Yeah he was doing his job. But after he could have come. Gone for Sephiroth. Raised him? At least given him something more than Hojo. The gunman wasn't asked a direct question regarding what Turks do and so doesn't feel the compulsion to answer. Or maybe the effect of the ice cream is lessening. Still, he's coming to realize that Sephiroth's ideas of what his former department did for Shinra is missing a few pages of harsh facts. Particularly as Shinra's power grew in scope.
Who he might consider in some near future whether it's possible to summon that neurodata version of the professor, load it up in a VR device and strangle him. Not happening of course. No one needs that around and escaping somewhere. But it's nice to dream.
"SOLDIER... maybe," Vincent will admit that. It'd provide outlet, even structure as well as a group of individuals who are... well, sturdy. "Lab..." This is mentioned with a shrug. He can't really argue that having a system in place to monitor Sephiroth's unique condition isn't a good idea, even if it's for purely medical reasons.
"The isolation... That's what's dangerous. It will prey on you. Make it easier to be controlled with no one to turn to."
By Hojo? Jenova? He doesn't say. Vincent's grip wraps around Sephiroth's; firm and confident. Whatever strength he has is something he's well versed in.
"It's fine you know. To hold on."
He'll pull back and seek to help the teen up. But he won't immediately let go.
Another soft hmph escapes at the reminder of the whole ordeal about being allowed to kill Sephiroth. It's morbid and terrible but Vincent also fixes his gaze on the teenager with a look that borders on 'are you kidding me right now?'
"I think all that preparation would have ruined the surprise." Because yeah, Vincent wasn't going to kill him if he'd just come back. And trying to surprise him... well, he would have known something was up when Sephiroth was laying out all the recording devices at the very least.
The bodyguarding part is what throws him, he's not used to the company's trained killers doing something so ... utterly mundane. "The isolation is what's safest. From what I can piece together from .. what I didn't ask Zack, I kill my friends. All of them except him." There's a brief hitch in that, but it's gone quickly, squashed under the necessary mask of calm and control. Not exactly a glowing reason to become friends with him that's for sure, and it makes him very hesitant of the likes of Alluka, who is surely an innocent and harmless girl with no way to defend herself should he become murderous.
Not that 'all of them' is many. But any is enough. Sephiroth is expectedly heavier than he looks, but not hard to pull off the ground when he's not putting up a struggle; it's noticeable that he does not in fact tighten his grip when told he can. What Vincent thought he could handle and what the boy is capable of may be wildly different things, it's a small measure of faith he's unwilling to test as yet. Time would tell if it's safe to try to trust anyone. Try to risk anyone.
Probably not though.
He doesn't seem to find it morbid or terrible, or he wouldn't have said it. Idle curiosity where something wouldn't ever have a lasting impact seemed perfectly reasonable to him. "You don't need the element of surprise with a cooperative target." But in fairness to that, Vincent wouldn't have known he had a cooperative target, instead of a lethally dangerous SOLDIER who would surely fight for his life tenaciously. "..But I'm not sure your friend would be willing to believe you'd succeeded where he failed twice over." All things considered, Cloud was very much likely to be perfectly willing to kill him, Vincent didn't have to do it for him.
It's not like Turks wouldn't be sent out to oversee security or protect assets. Was there more to it? Or just another generation's priorities, only to be phased out as Shinra's own needs changed and the War began. But as Vincent has proved, those qualities existed back then too.
Vincent feels the weight but doesn't seem to have problems dealing with it. It is also noted that Sephiroth does not act on the suggestion. Perhaps another time. He lets go once the teen is steady.
"Unless you are getting the order of cause and effect wrong," Vincent counters. The isolation came first." The lab. Hojo. "...Then the decision. Do you remember killing any of your friends before coming here?" Sure, that's a possibility but given how Sephiroth suggested that's in his future? Likely not. The statement is delivered gravely, without even a hint of humor or cynicism. This is not a laughing matter. "You said this came from something you didn't ask Zack? ...What other friends did infer you kill?"
There's a...frown in his tone. Zack, what did you say exactly? But it's also clear this is information from a time Vincent himself is unaware of the details about.
Vincent smoothly continues a chain of motions. From aiding Sephiroth from the ground to now reaching for his cloak on the door the young man had been beside. Ever so casually, rather than bringing it back around his own shoulders it is dropped to fall around Sephiroth's. Then an effort at gentle touch which also seems part firm insistence to start walking away from the entry and toward the chair.
It is a very comfortable looking chair and the only piece of real sitting furniture. Not even the loft at the back of the cabin seems to have anything occupying it.
"I meant that I wouldn't have tried to kill you if I had realized this place brings people back," Vincent clarifies. "And that if you had somehow arranged for me to do it while keeping me in the dark, I would have probably been suspicious about the video taping."
What Cloud believes about Vincent's abilities may or may not be relevant.
"Cloud might get angry." That he wasn't invited. "But he'd probably believe it. I can be determined when I want to be."
And Cloud has seen what Vincent does when motivated. Even this version of Cloud from three years ago.
Edited (How did I forget to mention Cloud?) Date: 2024-06-02 03:18 am (UTC)
Zack didn't say anything negative about that specifically, Sephiroth has a tendency to go to the worst possible outcome when everything else is already terrible. "No, I didn't ask, so he didn't tell me." He extrapolated. "I'm not interested in fielding more of my crimes when you already know so many of them." That's personal. He doesn't even know some of them yet! Another thing he can mourn without ever having had, alongside a family that cared at all about him. If Jenova managed to show even an iota of care, then he could understand why a future version of himself might drop humanity like a hot coal and switch sides in the war between humans and monsters. He on the other hand, wasn't ready to make that jump.
His team was still alive right now. Maybe he could, at least, save them from whatever terrible fate awaited them on the archipelago. Whatever it took, he'd do. They wouldn't be added to that count, if the Fox let him remember any of this when he returned to Gaia. If nothing else.. that'd have to do.
Speaking of assumptions, there's a pause as the red cloak once used to lure him to his near death is draped on him instead of Vincent. Was it a sign that Vincent couldn't see him as anything but a child, or was his guilt so great over absent Lucrecia that he'd ignore the countless deaths to come and treat him so? Or some other, mysterious third option? For now, Sephiroth allows himself to be guided; there's no real threat of immediate harm even if there really, really should be. "There's no point in testing a theory if you don't have it on record in some fashion." And apparently it would have been fine anyway one way or another. "And no knowing if it is true without putting it to the test." To lose the opportunity to remove a threat at the level of the Calamity before it becomes that dangerous would be a foolish mistake. But there's no sense he's going to try it out anyway himself, either here or elsewhere.
There's multiple points of evidence that, even without Thirteen's interference, it would be utterly meaningless. He'd just come back.
He ... will have to figure out a way to apologize, somehow, for things he hadn't even done yet. Cloud, Aerith .. these people suffered so much already. Just having him around would surely be a problem. While Sephiroth will take the chair for now, it's certain sooner or later he's going to leave; some things are better dealt with alone. Like any kind of emotional struggle at all. And now he had much more information to sort through. "Do you think he'd feel better, if I let him?"
Vincent doesn't know what he sees Sephiroth as anymore. At least the one that's manifest in front of him right now, before everything else terrible culminated in Nibelheim's burning and what lay after. But he could probably safely, and truthfully, say he doesn't see 'just' a boy. 'And' would be appropriate, one who is shell shocked by revelations and drowning in despair.
"Fine," Vincent says again, clearly unbothered. Though there's a 'but' lingering. If Sephiroth doesn't want to or isn't ready to, he won't press for it. Besides, he got what he wanted to out of the question. Sephiroth is assuming he killed a bunch of friends Zack didn't mention at all.
At the very least, Sephiroth would have at least mentioned 'yes I am certain' by the teen's previous behaviors.
"He didn't say you killed them. Don't count sins you don't know until you know the facts."
He won't add anything hopeful and it's not meant to be. This sounds like someone speaking from a practical standpoint and a great deal of experience in bookmarking sins. Even as a Turk, there must have been many he had to acknowledge. SOLDIER would have no less a type of accounting.
"You have enough to sort through to find out and decide who you are without adding hypothetical scenarios to account for."
Talking as if the worst case scenarios are in fact all that there is will do the teen no good. It may turn out true, but it doesn't help find a place to start.
Yes, assumptions. Vincent's efforts stop at the chair; he doesn't try to insist Sephiroth sit. This comes as a suggestion.
"It's night. Stay sheltered here and rest. Leave in the morning." He doesn't say sleep. Glancing around suggests there just aren't any other blanket options; part of it is yes, someone is the teen here. Another very real bit is the heavy, extra layer of warmth against shock. It smells of Vincent, outdoors, beast and yes, a hint of chocobo. Vincent leaves Sephiroth to decide whether to take the offer for its practical elements or discard both cloak and chair.
Even monsters sometimes need shelter from the deep, dark cold of somewhere like Wintermute.
The various lamps are snuffed, leaving the room in firelight and what star and moon from outside brings. More than enough for the two men. The gunman reaches as if habitually to his thigh. Of course the gun's gone and so is the holster. This earns a rumble of brief annoyance though more to himself. It would have been put up but near where he finally chooses to settle again; a place juxtaposed between chair and fire stove and wood pile so he can settle in but also feed the fire periodically through the rest of the evening.
"So you weren't sure either?" Sephiroth. Please. That really earns a shake of the head at the surreal logic and for a moment Vincent brings up his right hand to cup against his face; a trait more often seen out of him when dealing with Yuffie or Reeve's antics. Haaah.
Would Cloud... That is at least a more serious matter to settle.
"I'm not Cloud." This is not a way to cut that line of questioning off. Vincent is simply pointing out that any answer that follows is just his observations. Good ones; having seen Cloud chasing something, the pain it caused to him and others, the outcome.
"...But if you want my opinion, then..." Vincent pauses, settled and musing to assemble his thoughts before delivering them. He doesn't look directly at Sephiroth and his voice has a tone of reflection.
"Cloud might think he feels better at first. But it'd be hollow. You might become that Sephiroth. But you are not him right now. That sort of thing... is not going to make him feel better. It won't give him the closure he gets that last battle." When Kadaj had his body claimed by Sephiroth.
Vincent looks up then, regarding Sephiroth.
"All you'd be doing is feeding an empty dream."
His head lowers once more as if exhausted. Well, this has been a lot of conversation after all. And he is.
"And... even if you are Sephiroth, deep down I think there will be a part of him that understands he's taking out his pain on someone who is still innocent of what led to it. An easy target."
Ultimately a teenager, yes. But that fact can't be avoided. And it would just add to the harm, in Vincent's opinion. He doesn't doubt Cloud would do it. He just doesn't like to think of the fallout after.
"...Cloud can be a lot of things. But a murderer isn't one of them. Doing something like that, to someone that lets him... I think it would break something fundamental about him."
Aside from a slight head-shake he doesn't speak on that particular subject again. In a future written in blood, the chances of him NOT having slaughtered everyone around him is pretty slim. Attempting to pretend otherwise would be foolhardy at best. Zack escaped, perhaps for years, and that ... was as close to a comfort as he's going to get. There were few First Class SOLDIERs, he was friends with them .. and then Zack was the only one left. It's not hard to guess.
"What do you think is out there, that could be a problem?" It's a rhetorical question; Sephiroth is armed, could easily turn his profound disturbance to wrath and he knew exactly what to do with obviously inhuman monsters. Nobody mourned them, and nobody was waiting in his small home in the Burrows to see him return again, soaked in blood and grime.
Would anyone mourn him? He didn't think so, beyond 'that's too bad'. He runs his fingers along the back of the chair, thoughtful. He'd leave of course, sooner or later. And probably sooner rather than later. A long walk in the bitter cold might help him settle his turmoil a bit. "You know what they say. Trust but verify."
He was willing to test it out. Not much would be lost if everyone were wrong, after all, there were other active-types about to be ready for combat trials.
Vincent is indeed not Cloud, Cloud wouldn't have stopped. "I'm a SOLDIER. You know that means I'm not innocent. You know what we do. What we're made for, including Cloud." What he'd been bred for. An argument people kept trying to make with him, that it's somehow not murder under orders, but he knew why the Rhadorans were an extinct people save for one boy his own age, and it wasn't coincidence and happenstance. It wouldn't be murder if Cloud were to kill him either.
What he gets out of this is if it were to make his victims feel better, he'd have to provoke them blatantly first. Not ideal, when the goal was undoing some of the pain he'd caused. .. Would cause.
More things to try to work through, on top of everything else.
How long could he keep up this faux calm? After a long moment he sits heavily in the chair, the fire's crackles and pops almost but not quite soothing, fishing out his relic briefly to take note of the time and how long away sunrise was likely to be. There's a couple messages waiting to be read and automatically they're skimmed over before being deleted. That reminded him. "..There's a person I text sometimes." Twice! It counted. "She's interested in meeting you." There's no negative connotations to that, surely it won't go the way it did with Steve. "Her name's Natasha. Couldn't tell you what she looks like, but she seems nice."
When he left, he'd have to remember to put the gun down somewhere. It doesn't fit comfortably in his coat.
It's not something Vincent is going to push either. The nature of these statements is to give Sephiroth things to remember were said. It's not to force the youth to dig in his heels stubbornly. Anyway they'll have been said, received and right now that's enough.
"The cold. And the weather." True, the conditions had been unusually brisk but clear skies in the last week or so. But it isn't a guarantee and Wintermute is known for its whiteout blizzards.
Vincent's cabin isn't exactly on a well-beaten trail or anywhere near the cluster of civilization near the Academy for that matter. Clearing one's thoughts in the wintery air is one thing but adding lost, alone and freezing to the turmoil would wear at the psyche.
And while Vincent is showing signs that he would grieve Sephiroth- not that death is final- what does that matter, precisely?
Trust but verify. There's a lot that can be said about that. But even the part of Vincent that might resort to dry humor because it's better than anger or pain is spent. Thus there was only that earlier palm to face and no more.
A quiet statement corrects another sort of assumption though.
"Cloud was never SOLDIER."
It's the only thing Vincent is going to give. The effects of the ice cream are fading; he can resist the remaining urge to continue. And even if he has to speak the truth, he no longer finds there's no longer and need to continue. Though at this point, what would be the point in lying?
Yes, Cloud made it into the army, was a guard. And Vincent understands the confusion even if neither Zack or Cloud actually said that was the case. He closes his eyes.
They half-open a moment later, shifting attention to Sephiroth again. Just what do you casually talk about to someone who's 'nice' regarding the man that shot you? This may be a musing that crosses Vincent's mind.
"Natasha? Right." Name's not familiar. His eyes close again. No, seriously. What did you tell her, Sephiroth?
"Same process, similar training. He knows how to use the weapon he was carrying, without hesitation. He too, was made for it." Maybe Sephiroth's estimation of Cloud isn't fair, but he knows very well if he so much as breathed wrong in their brief encounter, it would have ended in violence. Hojo had his hand in things in making sure Cloud was as suitable for bloodshed as he himself was.
The cold was a lesser concern. But he'd wait a while, at least. Watch the fire, and try to get things in order at least a little bit. "...Not really." It doesn't sound like he's trying to hide anything about that potential encounter. As far as he could tell it should go just fine. Peacefully, even. There's nothing to avenge by way of Vincent's actions. His own, on the other hand..
Maybe it wasn't fair. Maybe Vincent's isn't. It's not as if Cloud didn't grow into his own and Vincent has that knowledge.
But is he necessarily wrong to have a concern about how it would affect Cloud? Only playing out the scenario would discover the truth and Vincent has no desire to put it to the test. And who knows how Aerith being here in Folkmore, how Zack being here, has changed things?
At least he's almost certain that he's correct it would not give Cloud the closure he really desires.
"Hm." It's a sound of acknowledgement with a short nod that's just a tip of Vincent's head forward a split second. If Sephiroth was hiding something- and he's likely not- Vincent would have to handle it anyway.
Minutes tick by, the sound of logs settling interrupts breathing and heartbeats. There is a wind picking up, though the sky remains clear. The cabin seems well insulated against the threat of Wintermute's chill. And... well, the cloak is warm.
Without sustained conversation, Vincent seems happy to lapse into silence and his own thoughts. Most of the time his eyes remain closed, but here and there Sephiroth is no doubt going to catch the ruby glimmer that suggests the gunman is still awake. Still watchful.
It's a silence that goes uninterrupted for hours. He doesn't move, beyond breath or the occasional blink, watching the firelight without actually seeing the flames.
An hour or so before the sun would normally break over the desolation of Wintermute, he finally stirs; sleep was never an option, wouldn't be regular or easy for a long while yet, but there's a certain stiffness to be had in not moving for most of the night. Nothing's said even then, the cloak unwound and set on the chair, with it the pistol he'd liberated from Vincent the day before.
There's no doubt the Turk will wake, if he'd even gotten any sleep, having someone moving around no matter how quiet Sephiroth could be, but he doesn't say anything, he just heads for the door. It's time to go, and it's a long way back to what passed as 'home'.
Other than the addition of an occasional log to the fire over the course of the night, there was little movement from Vincent.
Was he awake? Asleep? When morning came and Sephiroth quietly arranged departure, the gunman's eyes do not open and his breathing remains steady. He is awake. Sephiroth probably is well aware. But it might be nice that he pretends.
Until the door is closing. Before Sephiroth can leave the porch and the final click of the latch, a familiar voice drifts out of the pre-dawn shadows of the cabin.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
If it changes anything well oops, we'll retroactively say it happened. c.c
Date: 2024-05-30 10:49 pm (UTC)The fire is watched instead of Vincent.
Cloud's at the time unreasonable aggression is better understood, now. What he'd been made to do. What he meant by knowing Sephiroth's capabilities better than he himself did, beyond merely sharing Jenova in their blood. And it wasn't just about Cloud, but about Aerith, whom had been mentioned but there was no face to put to the name, the true last Cetra. Killed, like so many others.
The true depths of what Zack was willing to just ... let go, was profound. They should have all taken up weapons as soon as the Fox brought him here.
Found a way to make it stick.
That Vincent hasn't spoken of being dead, and nobody said anything about Cloud being dead either, they had to have finally won, but Vincent chooses a terrible moment to pause at. Or the exact right moment for a cliffhanger. "..Would it be easier to write?"
The only thing said, this entire time, and with no inflection at all.
no subject
Date: 2024-05-30 11:42 pm (UTC)"No, there's no compulsion to tell you the truth when I think about writing it."
Which is the truth in itself, but the sign that he paused to consider it means he might have intended to be honest anyway.
"Don't worry. I deserve at more than this level of discomfort." At least Sephiroth's question about writing had given him a little more time to collect himself. And the last part that concerns Sephiroth in specific is... shorter by comparison.
"Cloud stopped what the you of my past had become. Jenova... and that Sephiroth. It was blocking the planet's response to Meteor. Soon after, Holy came and... was bolstered by the Lifestream. Meteor was averted."
He might add in a few details here. Things he heard, that the others who had gone into the Crater had told him. Eventually, Vincent had drifted away but not for the usual reasons. Geostigma had begun to manifest in the wake of the Lifestream's emergence and Jenova's legacy within it.
The search for a cure, investigations into the root case. The Remnants, Rufus and the remaining Turks' descent into the North Crater to retrieve what remained of Jenova itself... Fools who could not leave enough alone.
Though leaving it there would have allowed Kadaj to find it sooner. Time was brought with their actions for better or worse. But the end came with the return of that Sephiroth, manifest in the strongest of the Remnants. Again the obsession with Cloud, again a clash... and defeat. No Meteor though. No Holy.
And though it bears the burden of being a final push after a long, long dialogue and hard for those reasons, the retelling of the events over those two years was comparably short. In part it was easier to assemble in hindsight and with firsthand knowledge throughout. But in a way it was also... less. No less deadly perhaps, or lacking in threat. Nothing of Lucrecia, here. There's nothing to mention. He'd not brought it up earlier either, when recounting the actions of that future version of the teen.
"That was the last. It's been a year since then. Geostigma was cured. That Sephiroth has disappeared or gone dormant again." He takes up the glass and allows himself the drink. The way he looks at it suggests Vincent feels it's not nearly enough but he forces himself to put it down and return the cork to the bottle.
It's going to have to be enough for now.
no subject
Date: 2024-05-31 12:23 am (UTC)'Monster' is an inaccurate description of Sephiroth. What was higher on that scale? He truly was Jenova's son, of all three 'parents' - a calamity, spawned by a calamity. Things the son of scientists alone could never accomplish had been wreaked not once, but twice, world ending threats that if they'd gone unchecked would have erased all life on Gaia.
Even Hojo wouldn't try to destroy the world. He'd have nothing to experiment on afterward.
Again Vincent isn't interrupted, there's no questions to be had that he thinks there'll be an answer for. He just draws his knees up to his chest and rests his head on them, arms crossed, trying and failing to grasp the enormity of harm he inflicts. None of it is a real shock this time, not the same way finding out what he was thoroughly destroyed any sense of where he belonged in the world. But it keeps him silent and more or less still even when the Turk finishes speaking.
It's never weighed as something that might happen, and something he could avoid.
How can he change something that's in other people's pasts? The silence ticks on, punctuated by the pop of the fire.
no subject
Date: 2024-05-31 01:14 am (UTC)Vincent needs a few of those precious, silent seconds to recover. Physically and emotionally he's spent. But his gaze doesn't leave Sephiroth; especially since the teen has finally stopped standing and simply sat on the ground.
He slowly closes the distance, his footsteps for once pointedly there. He'll get within an arm's length away and drop to crouch on one knee. With his right hand, he aims to bring it to rest on Sephiroth's shoulder.
"Sephiroth." There is a thin strain in the man's voice; the kind that suggests he will be feeling it in the morning. But Vincent doesn't care. "If you get that chance to remember everything you learned here, don't let my past shape your future."
His head dips briefly. Vincent still can't say anything that isn't true to his knowledge and it brings a sigh from him. He looks up again with as an intense, earnest expression as he can muster. He wants the boy to know that it's him speaking; not just what the ice cream is forcing him to admit.
"I don't know if Thirteen told you the truth. But if she did... then do what you want to do. We all failed you. Me, Hojo... Lucrecia."
Has Sephiroth tried to withdraw from the touch? Let it happen at all? If the hand was allowed to rest it will gently, albeit awkwardly, seek to squeeze a little.
"Being a monster... doesn't mean you have no humanity. Or that you can't choose to live as a human. It took me... a long time to learn that lesson. I hope you come to understand that sooner."
no subject
Date: 2024-05-31 07:52 pm (UTC)The WEAPONs are .. .. they're interesting but in a dull, distant sort of way that doesn't really have his focus right now. Maybe one day he'll think to ask about it, ask about all of them, but if he never becomes a threat to the world they should remain slumbering, distant menaces. Things that do not need to be stirred.
Things that never should have been roused to begin with.
On some level he's aware this is not the sort of thing a fourteen year old should have to deal with. That normal kids are busy with schoolwork or friends or having fun, not having their lives unravel thread by thread until there's nothing left but pain and uncertainty. He couldn't handle it any better than he would in another fifteen or so years, the only difference is the lack of his other 'mother's' influence to tip it all to violent destruction. It's going to take a long time to sort through it, come to terms with any of it, and make any real conclusions about what to do. Was it reassuring to know at least one of his mothers (if not both) actually had wanted him, experiment or no, and being left with Hojo was not part of the plan?
That too would need to be worked out in time, and try to figure out if what she meant outweighed what she did.
Maybe it would. He didn't have anything else.
"I might not have a choice." Time could be a closed circle, and all Thirteen's intentions could be meaningless. What has happened may always happen. He couldn't really grasp it, the numbers and scale involved. It left him a little numb, which might be better than abject horror.
Vincent is warmer than expected. Somehow he'd expected the chill, clammy touch of the dead. It didn't balance, being a monster and a human, he couldn't do both, and the choice was taken out of his hands already. How could he live like that? Try to be normal? He never was. There weren't a lot of places suitable for a monster in a human's skin, except maybe Folkmore. .. And Shinra. Vincent's fate was surely unsanctioned. The loss of a Turk to experimentation wouldn't be allowed. The things done to him would likely be seen as excessive, likely they had no idea. Whatever the process, it had worked, and that was what mattered to them.
But they offered structure that til now had been perfectly acceptable. And outlets for what he wondered now was that monstrous instinct to kill. Could possibly stop him if things got out of hand, he wasn't the only active-type SOLDIER preparing to be tested on the battlefield.
Do what you want to do. "You were born a human. You lived as one most of your life." There might have been shouting earlier but he's .. been quiet since. "I.. don't even know what it really means."
no subject
Date: 2024-05-31 08:33 pm (UTC)"Who knows?" If Sephiroth has a choice. "Going to give up before you even try?" That is one-hundred percent Vincent Valentine, no ice cream needed. Really, it's getting harder and harder to see the teenager as Sephiroth. At least, not the Sephiroth he glimpsed in the battles for Gaia's future.
That had seemed a gross caricature of what's before him now. If only he had waited longer and gotten to know the teen before... sigh.
Vincent isn't the best at comfort, as it was said before. The awkward way his hand rested in comfort, the brief squeeze. His hand drops away but... he isn't going away. Instead there's a shift of his stance and he just drops to sit alongside Sephiroth, legs loosely stretched, arms draped over bent knees and just inches away from shoulders touching.
He hears what might have been shouting once, if nothing more as a faint asperity in the complaint.
"I've been a monster as long as I was human," he points out. His physical appearance might make that hard to reconcile. "I barely remember what 'human' feels like." Honestly, it's more of a sense that he knows he once was. Sleeping had done little to preserve that feeling; every transformation, with control or without it, had stripped steadily it away.
"Is it better having always been one? Or knowing you were once 'human', but became a monster?"
Neither is better. The question's answer is a zero-sum game of comparisons. As Sephiroth says he doesn't know what 'human' means. Vincent lets out a huff of dry, mirthless humor.
"I don't think anyone really knows what it means to be 'human'." His head tilts so that he's looking at the teen settled next to him. "I've been thinking lately that it's better to focus on what it means to live."
no subject
Date: 2024-05-31 10:11 pm (UTC)Not just here - he'd returned twice before after being killed, on Gaia. Lucrecia had tried, and been unable to die. Jenova, trapped for thousands of years in stone, had not died either.
Saying it's all the same is a luxury only those who've experienced being human can have, and it reminds Sephiroth that he is not speaking to a close friend ... not that he really had any of those to begin with .. and thus should be more mindful of what he admits to. "If you don't know what it means."
Then the exercise of pretending to be human was pointless. "It makes pretending harder."
no subject
Date: 2024-05-31 11:40 pm (UTC)"Don't misunderstand. I don't particularly believe in 'what ifs'. But I never thought I'd be kidnapped by some strange creature and brought... here."
Sure, without the specific factors that led to Sephiroth's descent to madness, he'd at least maintain his self. 'Different' doesn't mean good. It can possibly mean a lot of lives saved. Vincent is well versed in cruel reality, else he'd have never gone after a teenager in the first place. Still, within the context of one's own time, what happens when something breaks the cycle? Or maybe he has to consider all the hope his friends subscribe to is rubbing off on him.
His words fade for a time, returning to watching Sephiroth and listening. For a moment, Vincent's brow furrows. It's... true. There is at least a difference between remembering what being human was like; he knows the norms. It's worth a pause for thought.
But the question that comes remains the same as he had originally intended to ask.
"Is that what you've been doing? Pretending?" It's not just an attempt to suggest that Sephiroth naturally shows human traits. Clumsy, young ones from a routine indoctrinated from birth. But 'human' in not wanting to be a monster, not wanting to hurt others or be a horrible calamity.
Vincent's tone indicate it's a question seeking what Sephiroth knew before he came here and learned of the future. If he always felt he was pretending. Was he pretending even now?
no subject
Date: 2024-06-01 12:02 am (UTC)The coloring is wrong. Their eyes are not unnatural the way his are. They can't hit people with cars, survive falls from hundreds of feet up, and more. There would be no removing Jenova from his body, there wouldn't be enough human to keep him alive.
"You were kidnapped?" He went willingly. He didn't remember everything about the long walk here, its explanations, its strange sights, but he did remember going deliberately. Being asked; it hadn't felt like a compulsion. He harbored no resentment towards the Fox at all, the world she'd built was a refuge for so many.
It had its costs, as everything did. But they seemed worth it, especially for those who had nothing to return to. And he knew several people now, without anything to return to.
In the end, irrelevant. Willing or not, they're here. He hesitates to answer the question about whether or not he's been acting this whole time, but slowly, there's a nod. He has been, in fact. It's not what Vincent had hoped for, perhaps, but it was still reality. "I've ... had to guess, a lot, about how I'm supposed to act; what I'm supposed to say or do. Until Rhadore, my contact with anyone outside the lab was minimal. I wasn't allowed such ... distractions."
On one hand that's exactly the sort of shit one might expect out of Hojo. Isolation meant an easier controlled product. On the other hand, it made Sephiroth's discomfort with the idea of people getting hurt by him or around him who didn't deserve it as instinctive as the urge to kill was.
no subject
Date: 2024-06-01 02:13 am (UTC)It's a matter to let rest for now.
"Hrmph. I didn't want to keep everyone waiting." He was asked, Vincent's fairly sure. It doesn't mean he was interested; Thirteen thought she knew better and then he was following anyway. Or she needed him for some reason? It was frustrating, even if some of those friends were here. Even if there was someone else he was especially capable of confronting. That was not Sephiroth.
But at the same time, it's turning out he might be helpful here. Atonement? He won't look at it like that. But at least he will take responsibility.
The nod... No, Vincent did not wish to see that. But as Sephiroth continues to explain, what starts as concern for the teen's true nature behind a mask is replaced. Quiet sadness. Regret. Anger, toward Hojo though little less at his own past foolishness.
"Sephiroth... that's not because you're a monster or an experiment." For a brief moment, Vincent's eyes close. "Those are skills you learn from meeting many people and experiencing many things. Being confined to a lab with only... whatever Hojo allowed, it's no wonder you struggle."
Look at Vincent, trying to explain how social skills are developed. It actually brings another scuff of near-humor out of him. The sort of sound that he tends to make when he's reflecting on himself.
"...And people, humans... they can struggle to connect even when they live 'normal' lives."
no subject
Date: 2024-06-01 08:37 pm (UTC)Later. There's always later, when he had just himself and an otherwise empty house to consider, or the long flight home.
Maybe he'd walk.
"You must understand." He can wrap neutrality around himself like a shield, however tenuous it is. "I can't afford to think it's fine and normal. Not until I ..."
No, this isn't right, it's not going to work. He needed to get control of himself; Hojo might be a hateful creature of a human being, but he was right about one thing, emotions got in the way, and he was embarrassing himself. It's one of his earliest lessons. It doesn't matter what he felt.
When he finally composes himself enough to speak again, he does seem remarkably calm. "In light of ... all of this. I'll do what I can to start putting contingencies in place. If I understand the roles we're handed by Thirteen, so long as I still have feathers I should be .. reasonably safe for others to be around. If that changes, then it would be best to treat me as a clear and immediate threat." Legends could become Myths, wings traded for fangs and claws.
no subject
Date: 2024-06-01 09:52 pm (UTC)So the gunman doesn't insist. Instead he offers a nod.
"Alright. I understand."
He really does.
"Keep it in mind. I'm forced to speak the truth right now. You should weigh it against whatever else you discover." It's just another bit of data to analyze. Not... just a hope. Vincent starts getting up from the floor. After a moment he offers his right hand down to the boy.
"I know I'm partly to blame. But...being raised in the lab. What you've gone through. Those aren't normal experiences. Not for humans, not for monsters."
The talk then turns to what might be used in Folkmore to recognize the changes in Sephiroth. Vincent turns his own thoughts to it.
"Hmm. Do you know how long that takes? I don't know if it's instant." And for a threat like that Sephiroth, the quicker the tells appear the better it is to trust them. "I'll have to start investigating roles again," he can be heard to mutter.
If nothing more, he's taking the warnings and contingency quite seriously.
no subject
Date: 2024-06-01 10:09 pm (UTC)Their job is murder and espionage, and apparently, guarding nerds. Hojo and Lucrecia are still alive, so mission accomplished. The hand offered to him is studied for a long moment before it's taken. His grip is ... very careful. "Given .. what I am and what I will do, the lab and SOLDIER may be the best place for me." His chances of causing undue harm with other enhanced fighters around him are smaller than if he had free reign. Zack simply wasn't enough on his own to do anything about it.
Cloud however, was. And Cloud is another SOLDIER, whether by treatment or by training. And with both of them here, with a cetra and a Turk as backup.. Sephiroth's reasonably sure he wouldn't get far before he was brought to an unceremonious stop.
Role switching however is a mystery. "No. I've heard of it but haven't seen it. Much like the claims of resurrection." Which reminded him. There's a pause and a frown. "I really would have let you, you know. I just wanted to do it somewhere easier to clean up and store my belongings, and set up some video recorders in case I forgot anything."
... No, he really is his parents' son.
no subject
Date: 2024-06-01 10:40 pm (UTC)Who he might consider in some near future whether it's possible to summon that neurodata version of the professor, load it up in a VR device and strangle him. Not happening of course. No one needs that around and escaping somewhere. But it's nice to dream.
"SOLDIER... maybe," Vincent will admit that. It'd provide outlet, even structure as well as a group of individuals who are... well, sturdy. "Lab..." This is mentioned with a shrug. He can't really argue that having a system in place to monitor Sephiroth's unique condition isn't a good idea, even if it's for purely medical reasons.
"The isolation... That's what's dangerous. It will prey on you. Make it easier to be controlled with no one to turn to."
By Hojo? Jenova? He doesn't say. Vincent's grip wraps around Sephiroth's; firm and confident. Whatever strength he has is something he's well versed in.
"It's fine you know. To hold on."
He'll pull back and seek to help the teen up. But he won't immediately let go.
Another soft hmph escapes at the reminder of the whole ordeal about being allowed to kill Sephiroth. It's morbid and terrible but Vincent also fixes his gaze on the teenager with a look that borders on 'are you kidding me right now?'
"I think all that preparation would have ruined the surprise." Because yeah, Vincent wasn't going to kill him if he'd just come back. And trying to surprise him... well, he would have known something was up when Sephiroth was laying out all the recording devices at the very least.
no subject
Date: 2024-06-01 11:28 pm (UTC)Not that 'all of them' is many. But any is enough. Sephiroth is expectedly heavier than he looks, but not hard to pull off the ground when he's not putting up a struggle; it's noticeable that he does not in fact tighten his grip when told he can. What Vincent thought he could handle and what the boy is capable of may be wildly different things, it's a small measure of faith he's unwilling to test as yet. Time would tell if it's safe to try to trust anyone. Try to risk anyone.
Probably not though.
He doesn't seem to find it morbid or terrible, or he wouldn't have said it. Idle curiosity where something wouldn't ever have a lasting impact seemed perfectly reasonable to him. "You don't need the element of surprise with a cooperative target." But in fairness to that, Vincent wouldn't have known he had a cooperative target, instead of a lethally dangerous SOLDIER who would surely fight for his life tenaciously. "..But I'm not sure your friend would be willing to believe you'd succeeded where he failed twice over." All things considered, Cloud was very much likely to be perfectly willing to kill him, Vincent didn't have to do it for him.
no subject
Date: 2024-06-02 01:17 am (UTC)Vincent feels the weight but doesn't seem to have problems dealing with it. It is also noted that Sephiroth does not act on the suggestion. Perhaps another time. He lets go once the teen is steady.
"Unless you are getting the order of cause and effect wrong," Vincent counters. The isolation came first." The lab. Hojo. "...Then the decision. Do you remember killing any of your friends before coming here?" Sure, that's a possibility but given how Sephiroth suggested that's in his future? Likely not. The statement is delivered gravely, without even a hint of humor or cynicism. This is not a laughing matter. "You said this came from something you didn't ask Zack? ...What other friends did infer you kill?"
There's a...frown in his tone. Zack, what did you say exactly? But it's also clear this is information from a time Vincent himself is unaware of the details about.
Vincent smoothly continues a chain of motions. From aiding Sephiroth from the ground to now reaching for his cloak on the door the young man had been beside. Ever so casually, rather than bringing it back around his own shoulders it is dropped to fall around Sephiroth's. Then an effort at gentle touch which also seems part firm insistence to start walking away from the entry and toward the chair.
It is a very comfortable looking chair and the only piece of real sitting furniture. Not even the loft at the back of the cabin seems to have anything occupying it.
"I meant that I wouldn't have tried to kill you if I had realized this place brings people back," Vincent clarifies. "And that if you had somehow arranged for me to do it while keeping me in the dark, I would have probably been suspicious about the video taping."
What Cloud believes about Vincent's abilities may or may not be relevant.
"Cloud might get angry." That he wasn't invited. "But he'd probably believe it. I can be determined when I want to be."
And Cloud has seen what Vincent does when motivated. Even this version of Cloud from three years ago.
no subject
Date: 2024-06-02 02:36 pm (UTC)His team was still alive right now. Maybe he could, at least, save them from whatever terrible fate awaited them on the archipelago. Whatever it took, he'd do. They wouldn't be added to that count, if the Fox let him remember any of this when he returned to Gaia. If nothing else.. that'd have to do.
Speaking of assumptions, there's a pause as the red cloak once used to lure him to his near death is draped on him instead of Vincent. Was it a sign that Vincent couldn't see him as anything but a child, or was his guilt so great over absent Lucrecia that he'd ignore the countless deaths to come and treat him so? Or some other, mysterious third option? For now, Sephiroth allows himself to be guided; there's no real threat of immediate harm even if there really, really should be. "There's no point in testing a theory if you don't have it on record in some fashion." And apparently it would have been fine anyway one way or another. "And no knowing if it is true without putting it to the test." To lose the opportunity to remove a threat at the level of the Calamity before it becomes that dangerous would be a foolish mistake. But there's no sense he's going to try it out anyway himself, either here or elsewhere.
There's multiple points of evidence that, even without Thirteen's interference, it would be utterly meaningless. He'd just come back.
He ... will have to figure out a way to apologize, somehow, for things he hadn't even done yet. Cloud, Aerith .. these people suffered so much already. Just having him around would surely be a problem. While Sephiroth will take the chair for now, it's certain sooner or later he's going to leave; some things are better dealt with alone. Like any kind of emotional struggle at all. And now he had much more information to sort through. "Do you think he'd feel better, if I let him?"
We are going to pretend Vincent did light on these oil lamps coming in because I forgot.
Date: 2024-06-02 05:10 pm (UTC)"Fine," Vincent says again, clearly unbothered. Though there's a 'but' lingering. If Sephiroth doesn't want to or isn't ready to, he won't press for it. Besides, he got what he wanted to out of the question. Sephiroth is assuming he killed a bunch of friends Zack didn't mention at all.
At the very least, Sephiroth would have at least mentioned 'yes I am certain' by the teen's previous behaviors.
"He didn't say you killed them. Don't count sins you don't know until you know the facts."
He won't add anything hopeful and it's not meant to be. This sounds like someone speaking from a practical standpoint and a great deal of experience in bookmarking sins. Even as a Turk, there must have been many he had to acknowledge. SOLDIER would have no less a type of accounting.
"You have enough to sort through to find out and decide who you are without adding hypothetical scenarios to account for."
Talking as if the worst case scenarios are in fact all that there is will do the teen no good. It may turn out true, but it doesn't help find a place to start.
Yes, assumptions. Vincent's efforts stop at the chair; he doesn't try to insist Sephiroth sit. This comes as a suggestion.
"It's night. Stay sheltered here and rest. Leave in the morning." He doesn't say sleep. Glancing around suggests there just aren't any other blanket options; part of it is yes, someone is the teen here. Another very real bit is the heavy, extra layer of warmth against shock. It smells of Vincent, outdoors, beast and yes, a hint of chocobo. Vincent leaves Sephiroth to decide whether to take the offer for its practical elements or discard both cloak and chair.
Even monsters sometimes need shelter from the deep, dark cold of somewhere like Wintermute.
The various lamps are snuffed, leaving the room in firelight and what star and moon from outside brings. More than enough for the two men. The gunman reaches as if habitually to his thigh. Of course the gun's gone and so is the holster. This earns a rumble of brief annoyance though more to himself. It would have been put up but near where he finally chooses to settle again; a place juxtaposed between chair and fire stove and wood pile so he can settle in but also feed the fire periodically through the rest of the evening.
"So you weren't sure either?" Sephiroth. Please. That really earns a shake of the head at the surreal logic and for a moment Vincent brings up his right hand to cup against his face; a trait more often seen out of him when dealing with Yuffie or Reeve's antics. Haaah.
Would Cloud... That is at least a more serious matter to settle.
"I'm not Cloud." This is not a way to cut that line of questioning off. Vincent is simply pointing out that any answer that follows is just his observations. Good ones; having seen Cloud chasing something, the pain it caused to him and others, the outcome.
"...But if you want my opinion, then..." Vincent pauses, settled and musing to assemble his thoughts before delivering them. He doesn't look directly at Sephiroth and his voice has a tone of reflection.
"Cloud might think he feels better at first. But it'd be hollow. You might become that Sephiroth. But you are not him right now. That sort of thing... is not going to make him feel better. It won't give him the closure he gets that last battle." When Kadaj had his body claimed by Sephiroth.
Vincent looks up then, regarding Sephiroth.
"All you'd be doing is feeding an empty dream."
His head lowers once more as if exhausted. Well, this has been a lot of conversation after all. And he is.
"And... even if you are Sephiroth, deep down I think there will be a part of him that understands he's taking out his pain on someone who is still innocent of what led to it. An easy target."
Ultimately a teenager, yes. But that fact can't be avoided. And it would just add to the harm, in Vincent's opinion. He doesn't doubt Cloud would do it. He just doesn't like to think of the fallout after.
"...Cloud can be a lot of things. But a murderer isn't one of them. Doing something like that, to someone that lets him... I think it would break something fundamental about him."
no subject
Date: 2024-06-02 07:45 pm (UTC)"What do you think is out there, that could be a problem?" It's a rhetorical question; Sephiroth is armed, could easily turn his profound disturbance to wrath and he knew exactly what to do with obviously inhuman monsters. Nobody mourned them, and nobody was waiting in his small home in the Burrows to see him return again, soaked in blood and grime.
Would anyone mourn him? He didn't think so, beyond 'that's too bad'. He runs his fingers along the back of the chair, thoughtful. He'd leave of course, sooner or later. And probably sooner rather than later. A long walk in the bitter cold might help him settle his turmoil a bit. "You know what they say. Trust but verify."
He was willing to test it out. Not much would be lost if everyone were wrong, after all, there were other active-types about to be ready for combat trials.
Vincent is indeed not Cloud, Cloud wouldn't have stopped. "I'm a SOLDIER. You know that means I'm not innocent. You know what we do. What we're made for, including Cloud." What he'd been bred for. An argument people kept trying to make with him, that it's somehow not murder under orders, but he knew why the Rhadorans were an extinct people save for one boy his own age, and it wasn't coincidence and happenstance. It wouldn't be murder if Cloud were to kill him either.
What he gets out of this is if it were to make his victims feel better, he'd have to provoke them blatantly first. Not ideal, when the goal was undoing some of the pain he'd caused. .. Would cause.
More things to try to work through, on top of everything else.
How long could he keep up this faux calm? After a long moment he sits heavily in the chair, the fire's crackles and pops almost but not quite soothing, fishing out his relic briefly to take note of the time and how long away sunrise was likely to be. There's a couple messages waiting to be read and automatically they're skimmed over before being deleted. That reminded him. "..There's a person I text sometimes." Twice! It counted. "She's interested in meeting you." There's no negative connotations to that, surely it won't go the way it did with Steve. "Her name's Natasha. Couldn't tell you what she looks like, but she seems nice."
When he left, he'd have to remember to put the gun down somewhere. It doesn't fit comfortably in his coat.
no subject
Date: 2024-06-02 08:44 pm (UTC)"The cold. And the weather." True, the conditions had been unusually brisk but clear skies in the last week or so. But it isn't a guarantee and Wintermute is known for its whiteout blizzards.
Vincent's cabin isn't exactly on a well-beaten trail or anywhere near the cluster of civilization near the Academy for that matter. Clearing one's thoughts in the wintery air is one thing but adding lost, alone and freezing to the turmoil would wear at the psyche.
And while Vincent is showing signs that he would grieve Sephiroth- not that death is final- what does that matter, precisely?
Trust but verify. There's a lot that can be said about that. But even the part of Vincent that might resort to dry humor because it's better than anger or pain is spent. Thus there was only that earlier palm to face and no more.
A quiet statement corrects another sort of assumption though.
"Cloud was never SOLDIER."
It's the only thing Vincent is going to give. The effects of the ice cream are fading; he can resist the remaining urge to continue. And even if he has to speak the truth, he no longer finds there's no longer and need to continue. Though at this point, what would be the point in lying?
Yes, Cloud made it into the army, was a guard. And Vincent understands the confusion even if neither Zack or Cloud actually said that was the case. He closes his eyes.
They half-open a moment later, shifting attention to Sephiroth again. Just what do you casually talk about to someone who's 'nice' regarding the man that shot you? This may be a musing that crosses Vincent's mind.
"Natasha? Right." Name's not familiar. His eyes close again. No, seriously. What did you tell her, Sephiroth?
"Anything else I should know?"
no subject
Date: 2024-06-02 09:47 pm (UTC)The cold was a lesser concern. But he'd wait a while, at least. Watch the fire, and try to get things in order at least a little bit. "...Not really." It doesn't sound like he's trying to hide anything about that potential encounter. As far as he could tell it should go just fine. Peacefully, even. There's nothing to avenge by way of Vincent's actions. His own, on the other hand..
.. He'll burn that bridge when he comes to it.
no subject
Date: 2024-06-02 10:47 pm (UTC)But is he necessarily wrong to have a concern about how it would affect Cloud? Only playing out the scenario would discover the truth and Vincent has no desire to put it to the test. And who knows how Aerith being here in Folkmore, how Zack being here, has changed things?
At least he's almost certain that he's correct it would not give Cloud the closure he really desires.
"Hm." It's a sound of acknowledgement with a short nod that's just a tip of Vincent's head forward a split second. If Sephiroth was hiding something- and he's likely not- Vincent would have to handle it anyway.
Minutes tick by, the sound of logs settling interrupts breathing and heartbeats. There is a wind picking up, though the sky remains clear. The cabin seems well insulated against the threat of Wintermute's chill. And... well, the cloak is warm.
Without sustained conversation, Vincent seems happy to lapse into silence and his own thoughts. Most of the time his eyes remain closed, but here and there Sephiroth is no doubt going to catch the ruby glimmer that suggests the gunman is still awake. Still watchful.
no subject
Date: 2024-06-03 12:18 am (UTC)An hour or so before the sun would normally break over the desolation of Wintermute, he finally stirs; sleep was never an option, wouldn't be regular or easy for a long while yet, but there's a certain stiffness to be had in not moving for most of the night. Nothing's said even then, the cloak unwound and set on the chair, with it the pistol he'd liberated from Vincent the day before.
There's no doubt the Turk will wake, if he'd even gotten any sleep, having someone moving around no matter how quiet Sephiroth could be, but he doesn't say anything, he just heads for the door. It's time to go, and it's a long way back to what passed as 'home'.
no subject
Date: 2024-06-03 12:27 am (UTC)Was he awake? Asleep? When morning came and Sephiroth quietly arranged departure, the gunman's eyes do not open and his breathing remains steady. He is awake. Sephiroth probably is well aware. But it might be nice that he pretends.
Until the door is closing. Before Sephiroth can leave the porch and the final click of the latch, a familiar voice drifts out of the pre-dawn shadows of the cabin.
"Travel safe."